Inside Science: The Zeptoverse, Ancient Cannabis Evidence, and the AI Book Scanning Debate

Episode snapshot

In this week’s Inside Science, host Tom Whipple guides listeners through the idea of the Zeptoverse, a glimpse into the tiniest scales of nature explored at CERN, and links this to potential new physics beyond the standard model. The show also travels to southern Siberia for a remarkable archaeological find — cannabis seeds with preserved hair containing cannabinoids, offering the oldest direct evidence of cannabis consumption. The discussion extends to a rare red blood cell discovery in a dinosaur, a vibrating mattress study aiming to boost the brain’s waste-clearing system, and the AI-driven digitisation and training of books, including Project Panama’s destructive scanning plan. Penny Sashay from New Scientist contributes weekly science news, while Roland Pease reports from the ancient DNA and cannabis frontier.

• Zeptometer physics and the Zeptoverse
• Ancient cannabis evidence with preserved hair
• AI in publishing and the ethics of data
• Brain glymphatic system and vibrating bed research

Introduction and episode structure

The podcast opens with a fast-paced tour of the week’s science and a teaser about the Zeptoverse, a term used to describe physics at zeptometer scales, where researchers at CERN are probing nature with ever-smaller probes than before. The conversation anchors around how shrinking distance scales can reveal new constituents or interactions that could alter our understanding of fundamental forces. The host frames these ideas as a continuous story of zooming in on the fabric of reality, echoing the long arc of particle physics, where each new scale has yielded surprising discoveries and transformative technologies.

Following the physics deep dive, the programme shifts to the Large Hadron Collider beauty (LHCB) experiment, focusing on how this “office-sized” digital camera records particle collisions in real time. The discussion centers on the beauty quark and the rare decay processes, emphasizing how deviations in decay rates could indicate new physics beyond the standard model or the influence of undiscovered particles such as dark matter constituents. The guest explains how interference from new particles could subtly alter decay frequencies, guiding scientists toward possible new physics in the zeptometer scale. The conversation also makes a broader economic argument for fundamental physics, recounting historical technological spin-offs from particle physics and arguing that investments today fuel tomorrow’s breakthroughs such as the World Wide Web, MRI, and proton therapy.

Ancient cannabis evidence and archaeology

Roland Pease reports on a Siberian archaeological dig in the Siberian Valley of the Kings near the Altai region, where cannabis seeds were found in central burial contexts near skeletons, accompanied by preserved human hair. The team used mass spectrometry to detect cannabinoids such as THC and CBD in preserved hair, demonstrating direct consumption traces from about 2,800 years ago. The researchers discussed how cannabis might have been naturally occurring in the local flora and possibly used in ritual contexts, with a broader implication for understanding cannabis domestication and ancient Eurasian exchange. The find is complemented by ancient DNA sequencing of cannabis seeds, which could rewrite the domestication history of a crop central to modern medicine and industry.

Dinosaurs and neurobiology

The hosts pivot to a separate story about a dinosaur bone sample yielding remarkably well-preserved red blood cells, a finding published in PNAS. This discovery challenges ideas about dinosaur physiology and highlights the importance of advanced analytical techniques in paleobiology. The discussion remains exploratory, especially given the potential for future insights into dinosaur biology and the nature of fossil preservation.

Brain health technology and lifestyle interventions

Carissa Wong presents a segment on brain waste disposal and glymphatic enhancement, including vibrating mattresses, nitric oxide supplementation, pink noise, and possibly other lifestyle interventions such as sauna therapy. The experts caution against at-home experiments and acknowledge that the science is still developing. They discuss how glymphatic clearance could relate to neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s, while also noting the broader interest in non-pharmacological approaches to brain health and waste clearance. Sauna and heat-based therapies are mentioned as other potential modalities, with the underlying message that robust, rigorous clinical evidence is essential before broad adoption.

AI and the digitisation of books

In a closing act of the show, the discussion turns to a contemporary AI ethics and publishing story. Book dealers outlined a wave of unusual orders traced to AI-driven digitisation projects, including a controversial internal programme at Anthropic titled Project Panama, which described the destructive scanning of all books. The debate touches on fair use versus copyright, the ownership of digitised knowledge, and the implications for libraries, authors, and the wider public. The participants argue that digitising and indexing more of humanity’s written record could unlock new knowledge, provided it is accompanied by careful governance, transparent licensing, and robust training data practices. The programme ends with a reminder of the ongoing tension between data access and copyright, and the potential for AI to both democratise and threaten access to knowledge.