Carlo Rovelli on Relational Reality, Space and the Quantum Shape of the World

Overview

In this interview with New Scientist, physicist Carlo Rovelli shares how art and philosophy illuminate physics, arguing that space as a fixed backdrop is an approximation and that reality is relational and quantum in nature. The discussion spans Kapoor’s exhibition, loop quantum gravity, and the limits of scientific certainty, concluding with a call for embracing multiple perspectives in understanding reality.

Key insights

• Space is not a fundamental backdrop; at small scales space emerges from quantum geometry in Rovelli’s view.
• Science and art share a common task: challenging everyday assumptions about reality and prompting new ways of thinking.
• Philosophy remains essential to physics, guiding questions about what we can know and how we frame questions.
• There is no final, ultimate picture of reality; instead, a relational, interconnected description across different levels of understanding.

Introduction

The video features a dialogue between New Scientist and Carlo Rovelli, conducted at the Anish Kapoor exhibition in London. Rovelli reflects on the creative overlap between science and art, arguing that many conventional pictures of reality are approximations rather than absolutes. The setting offers a backdrop to explore how art can provoke the kind of cognitive openness that science also seeks.

Space as an Approximation

Central to Rovelli’s argument is the provocative claim that there is no space in the absolute sense. He clarifies that space exists in practical terms, but the ordinary picture of space is an approximation whose details reveal deeper, more complex structures when examined closely. This leads into a broader critique of the classic Newtonian view of space and how Einstein’s relativity already hinted at a more nuanced geometry that becomes even more intricate at quantum scales.

Science, Art, and the Unknown

Rovelli highlights the resonance between science and art: both invite us to suspend the comfortable assumption that reality is as obvious as our waking experience. Kapoor’s work, particularly the large black disk that conceals a hidden element, serves as a metaphor for how reality can surprise us and force us to reassess what we think we know. The portal motif evokes the sense that scientific progress is a venture into the unknown, with danger and wonder intertwined.

The Limits and Promises of Science

On the methodological frontier, Rovelli argues that science advances by leaving behind old worldviews and adopting better ones, always bearing in mind that our knowledge has limits. He uses the bicycle analogy to explain how a theory like the Standard Model describes phenomena at one level, but practical problem solving (like fixing a bike) requires a different language and set of tools. This emphasizes the need for multiple descriptive layers, from chemistry to physics to everyday intuition, and even to moral and aesthetic considerations.

Relational Reality and Quantum Gravity

Turning to quantum gravity, Rovelli explains the relational nature of reality: physical descriptions are not monolithic truths but different ways of talking about the same underlying phenomena. He advocates a monist view that sees souls, atoms, chemistry, and physics as coherence among descriptions rather than mutually exclusive domains. The geometry of space is not a static stage but a dynamical, quantum object made of discrete quanta that interact with one another, aligning with loop quantum gravity ideas.

Philosophy, Education, and Humility in Science

The discussion stresses the need for philosophical literacy within physics. Rovelli argues that historical advances in physics were often sparked by philosophical inquiry and that the discipline should remain open to questions that transcend pure mathematics or experimental results. He cautions against dogmatic claims of final answers and encourages a culture of courage to know what we can know while acknowledging what we do not.

Looking Ahead

Ultimately Rovelli envisions a future where multiple descriptions of reality coexist and inform one another, rather than competing for a single ultimate truth. He remains hopeful that quantum gravity and other foundational questions will yield to empirical and theoretical progress, while also embracing the mystery that motivates scientific inquiry. The interview closes with an invitation to explore further topics, including extra dimensions and connections to broader philosophical questions.